#i've seen some portray him as a tiger | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

imperiuswrecked · 6 months ago

Note

So I was browsing through some of your old posts and one of them mentioned that Namor was r*ped? When did that happen? Would you ever consider writing something that deals with the fallout of that? Hope you're doing well btw

Thank you, I am doing fine, and I hope you are too! CW for Heavy/Dark Themes, Rape, Sexual Assault.

(During the 90s Reed Richards was written out of Fantastic Four comics, and presumed dead by literally everyone in the comic world except for Susan who believed he was still alive. In real world time Reed was gone for years, and this was really unheard of for one of Marvel's important characters because the Fantastic Four were Marvel's big team. So it really looked like Reed wasn't going to come back. I say this to let you know why Reed wasn't around in these comics, and to mention that Susan never cheated on Reed.)

So I was browsing through some of your old posts and one of them mentioned that Namor was r*ped? When did that happen?

Yes, Namor was canonically raped in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #49-50; Empress Llyra (the shapeshifting half Human/Lemurian woman who poisoned Namora, killed Lady Dorma, and helped Tiger Shark kill Namor's father, and tried killing Namor) shapeshifted into Susan (The Invisible Woman) and raped Namor. The next day Namor finds out that Susan never slept with him and that it was Llyra, he snaps and tries to kill her but is stopped by Susan, and the text is very explicit in saying "There's a word for what she did to me, Susan. Had it been committed against you, would you not feel justified?", and this was confirmed by the writer Glenn Herdling in an interview by Twomorrows Back Issue #91.

Back Issue #91: Namor #50 (May 1994) deals with a touchy subject, as Herdling points out. "My friend Chris Cooper, a former Marvel editor and author of Songs of the Metamythos, recently reminded me that Namor was raped in an issue I wrote. In her attempt to spawn an heir to the throne of Atlantis, Namor's nemesis Llyra seduced him by disguising herself as Sue Richards. Chris asked me if I regretted writing that scene. I told him that I thought it was a powerful story, and if I had to tell it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing. People don't think a strong, virile hero like Namor - who represents the essence of masculinity - could ever be a victim of rape. Namor is a attractive, stalwart individual with a magnetic personality who has always been portrayed as having an insatiable appetite for the fairer sex. When a female adversary takes sexual advantage of such a man, a common reaction is, 'So what?' Sue Richards illustrates this double standard when she demands to know why Namor was in a homicidal rage. Namor retorts, 'If the act had been committed upon you, Susan Richards, it would be called something else.' At the time if I had proposed such a story and the victim had been female, it would have never seen the light of day."

Would you ever consider writing something that deals with the fallout of that?

I have written many scenes that deal with the fallout of Llyra's actions towards Namor, and a have planned a big portion of my fic, Sub-Mariner: Ascension around the 90s and all that happens. Is any of it published on my Ao3 yet? No, but it will be sometime in the future.

Unfortunately I don't have a set date for when I update fics, it depends on my schedule, and my ability/energy to write. I've been struggling a lot with writing lately so I am working on trying to finish my other works before devoting myself back to my Sub-Mariner: Ascension fic as that's really my long time pet project, it's a fic that is more of a novel, or several novels, that chronical Namor's life through the comics but with a more in depth look at his adventures and his character, it's darker at some points than the comics ever go, and deal with a lot of heavy subjects like the above mentioned incident, as well as Namor's time growing up, his time in the war, with each team he's been on, and each loss he's endured. It's supposed to flesh out and connect a lot of threads that the comics never pick up on while including new original elements. I did commission a fanart of for this too, and I hope over time to commission more arts for this story, as well as finish writing it.

I have toyed with several ideas of a stand alone fics that covers what happened to Namor, this time and other instances*, but I was never sure if anyone would be interested in dark fics that has heavy angst/whump as well as dealing with this topic for Namor.

*This also isn't the first time Namor was raped, or sexually assaulted, however it's always played off, never spoken of again, or turned into "well he wanted it".

The first time a shapeshifter seduced and tricked Namor into sexual relations was in The Defenders (1972) #93; The dead Lady Dorma seemingly comes back to life and places a spell/mind control on Namor to do her bidding and attack the surface world. The Defenders figure out something is wrong with Namor and "Dorma" reveals herself as Nebulon, The Celestial Man. He was recurring enemy of The Defenders, and when Namor finds out that "Lady Dorma" was Nebulon he fights him and says, "You have violated my very consciousness, Nebulon -- defiled the memory of the fairest creature I have ever known! You have used me scum -- and The Sub-Mariner is not lightly used!" -- "When I think that I... held you in my arms -- let my lips brush yours... I am sickened."

(So while Herdling thinks he's written this happening to Namor for the first time, it's not, however Herdling does point out in no uncertain terms what it is. Which is a far better writing than what Johnny Storm (The Human Torch) got stuck with. It's actually so interesting that both Namor & Johnny got a story arc about a green skinned shape-shifter Llyra & Lyja who takes on the shape of other women to trick the men into sleeping with or marrying them only for the truth to come out. In fact Namor in these issues even thinks it's Lyja who raped him before figuring out it's Llyra.

While Namor got to say what happened to him was rape, Johnny doesn't. Johnny gets made fun of for Lyja. More about this subject in this post by @/ Traincat) )

Marvel Comics Presents (1988) #58 - Just an issue ago Namor was thinking suicidal thoughts over losing his wife, Marrina, and gets roped into helping some humans. Sandra touches and kisses Namor thinking that him being annoyed by her is just a front for unresolved sexual tension between them, but Namor rebuffs her and tells her that his affections are not so easily won. Later a mysterious old man tells Namor he needs to relax and to appreciate the pleasures life offers him.

Basically the comic dismisses Namor being uncomfortable with a strange woman who came onto him, and tells him he needs to enjoy himself. Nothing romantic happens between Namor & Sandra in later comics.

Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) Annual 3 - Namor is visiting a friend in Tokyo, and the friend's (wife? girlfriend? text just says woman) woman comes to Namor in the middle of the night seeking to sleep with him. He tells her this is improper, and she leaves, she returns more dressed, and seduces Namor again, against his protests, touching, kissing him, before a panel shows Namor giving in. It's later revealed the woman is a cyborg assassin.

The framing of this pretty much shows how uncomfortable Namor is with the whole situation.

Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #36 - The Neried seek to seduce Namor by shifting their forms to look like Lady Dorma & Marrina, his dead wives, but he rejects him, and just like in The Defenders, he is enraged someone would take on the forms of women he loved so deeply and dearly.

The Invaders (1975) Annual 1 - The Shark, knocks Namor out, ties him up, changes his clothing to steal his speedos. While it's played for comedic effect, this isn't the first or last time a villain has tied Namor up, but I make special mention of this because of the fact that at one point while unconscious Namor was stripped naked against his will.

Villains often admire Namor's body, and remark on it. Honestly the amount of times Namor's been tied up, abused, experimented on, etc. happens so many times that it'd need it's own post.

One more I'd like to mention because of the implications is Dark X-Men: The Beginning #1 - Norman wants Namor on his side, and has a talk with Namor while he's in the shower (full comic) and while Namor definitely has the strength to defend himself, this is more of a psychological play by Norman, talking to a person while they are naked is a very vulnerable moment, the hand touch, etc. Norman knows he can't control Namor through brute strength so he positions himself in a way that gives him power over Namor while also offering Namor things he wants, a mention of how he can give Namor a place to belong, with Emma, a home on his team.

As many Namor fans know, Namor does not like to be touched without consent, even if its a tap on the shoulder, and while the comics have often implied it's because Namor is royal, he's arrogant, he doesn't want peasant hands to touch him, etc. honestly I personally just headcanon that after years of people touching him when he doesn't want to be touched he's just put up a wall of arrogance to defend himself from further molestation. It wouldn't be too far fetched to think so because even as a kid he was (physically & verbally abused) by his grandfather (Namor: The First Mutant (2010) #4), beat up by other Atlantean kids, etc. so why would he want people he doesn't trust touching him. He's unclothed a lot, and people think that means it's ok to touch when it's not. Even when it's just a person he knows, he doesn't like it.

Defenders (2001) #7

I know this is a long reply, but it's just a subject that I don't think gets discussed enough tbh. Also to make one final point is bringing this back to what Herdling said in his interview: When a female adversary takes sexual advantage of such a man, a common reaction is, 'So what?'

While I'm not a fan of Herdling's writing, his run on Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) had so many issues with plot, etc. I do think he makes an interesting point in this interview (that took place in 2016? I think) about the double standard male characters face when it comes to Rape, Sexual Assault, and on another note Domestic Abuse, or any time of crime that we typically associate with men doing to women, how there's a general lack of care. It's turned into a joke when a woman abuses a man, or how the man is treated as something less if he doesn't perform masculinity to societies standards. Namor + Masculinity is a topic that could be discussed further, because he is one of the characters that many people think has toxic masculinity but they just haven't read his comics. While Namor definitely has some bad qualities, he's also very confident in himself and his masculinity, so by Herdling not shying away from the subject that "yes, Namor was raped, no I don't regret writing it", it's so interesting. A lot of creators often just shy away from confirming anything or try to defend their choice to have a male character raped/sexually assaulted, or excuse it, or ignore it, or make fun of it, or blame the male character. ESPICALLY when a character is, like Namor, a lover, a flirt, probably promiscuous, they are blamed for what women do to them. One example that drives me so insane is Gambit. I'll put the rest under a cut since it's more graphic than what I've shared so far, and further down I analyze Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #49-50 in more depth.

I think the only male character who's depiction of rape (twice) is actually done differently and not brushed off or treated as a joke is Captain Britain. (Of course there's probably other stories out there with other characters but I'm just going off what I know in the big 2, Marvel & DC comics). You can read this post that goes more into Brian's experiences by @/ Thisiswhatwereupagainst.

CW for Heavy/Dark Themes, Rape, Sexual Assault, Incestuous implications.

If you haven't read X-Men (1991) #171-173, then I'd warn you about how bad the writing is; a student, Foxx, propositions Gambit, comes onto him while he's in the shower, he rejects her. He's blamed for taking advantage of a student (why do characters think the worst of Remy, he's not a bad guy!), then he finds out Foxx is actually Mystique who claims to want to sleep with Remy for the sake of her daughter. He rejects her again, but doesn't tell anyone about it, and when it gets out that it's Mystique then Rogue is mad at Remy for keeping it a secret. The sexual assault isn't ever brought up again and is ignored, but again it was framed as "Remy is a sexual dude, he would be ok with it, besides who cares?" Just because a character is promiscuous doesn't mean they want/deserve something like this to happen to them.

Both Namor and Remy are seen as charming, they get the girls, "so what if they are subject to unwanted attention? They should enjoy it..."

It doesn't help that both Remy & Namor have had moments of queer writing, with Remy & Namor nearly being made Bisexual/Gay, (Namor's was in an AU) but they were barred from being canon lgbtq characters in Marvel by the bosses, even though there are times throughout their 616 comics where you can interpret them as not just cis straight men.

--- At the time if I had proposed such a story and the victim had been female, it would have never seen the light of day."

Nightwing (1996) #93 - Nightwing is raped while in an emotionally compromised state, but if he had been a woman would that issue have seen the light of day?

Wonder Woman (1987) #214 - The Flash (Wally West) is beaten and sexually assaulted by Cheetah.

He's a married man, but Cheetah calls him lover as she beats him, and is about to rape him before she's stopped. If it was reversed would this have been allowed to see the light of day?

Flash brushes off this experience.

I'm not saying that women in comics haven't been raped or assaulted but I'm just pointing to a few examples of how differently male vs female characters are treated, "because it's not acceptable for it to have happened to a woman but it's ok for a man" Herdling basically says.

A more in depth look at Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #48-49.

First off the cover is just Bad. Like really bad, like "What on earth possessed you to make THAT cover?!" The theme of one man with a haram of sexy ladies isn't unheard of, that's not why it's bad though I do side eye it anyways, but the reason it's bad is because of who the women are.

Andromeda - Namor's friend, a proud a fierce Atlantean warrior, the daughter of Attuma, who has Namor's trust and confidence. Namor appointed her as Peacelord, she's basically become the captain of Namor's guard. While Andromeda has/had a crush Namor, nothing ever came of it and Namor never viewed her in a romantic light, only as a friend.

Marrina - Namor's second wife, they were happily married for a short time before Marrina turned into a sea monster, she breifely turns back into herself only to beg Namor to promise to end her life so that she no longer harms anyone else, and Namor honors her wish after she turns back into a sea monster, killing her with a magic sword. It makes sense for her to be on the cover.

Princess Fen - Namor's mother. Yes. His mother. Do I need to say more? Like why the fuck would you put Namor's MOM in a sexy lady Haram group shot with a title card that reads "Haunted by memories of lost love!" we know the writer intended romantic love, not platonic or familial love. Namor & his mom have never had an incestuous relationship ever.

Lady Dorma - Namor's first wife, who was murdered by Empress Llyra. He loved her very much. (I know people will always point out that Dorma was Namor's "cousin" but honestly the comics never state they are blood/close cousins, only a loose term of "cousins", Dorma was a Lady of the Altantean Court, a noble family.) They grew up as friends in court, and she was one of the only people who treated Namor kindly, and he doesn't even realize his true feelings for her until they are both adults. It makes sense for her to be on the cover.

Namorita - Namor's younger cousin. While I know there's people who will point out that Nita had a crush on Namor when she first knew who he was, I will also point out that Nita was like 16 years old, a stupid horny teenager who was raised alone (and probably abused) in the court of Empress Llyra after Llyra poisoned her mother, and Namor was the first person to defend her when she needed it, AND I will also point out her "crush" lasted barely a comic before she found a cute human sailor boy her age to crush on instead. Namor's only ever treated her like a little sister and again not in an incestuous manner. So again, why do we have her in a sexual position here?

Susan Richards - a married woman who long ago told Namor she doesn't love him several times, the Namor/Sue ship was dead in the water, and Namor had moved on from his infatuation, and was married twice. He never had his feelings reciprocated. I understand why she's on the cover but I just don't like it. lol.

The comic promises to dive into Namor's lost romances of the past, but out of all the women featured here the only 2 who loved Namor & he returned their love were Marrina & Dorma. For Andromeda it was a one sided crush on her end, and for Susan it was a unhealthy obsessive infatuation on Namor's end. It really feels like they just wanted to have sexy ladies on the cover and that's why its framed this way. Furthermore Namor is chained to the bed, while his arm is around Lady Dorma, he is staring blankly past everyone.

Namor is haunted by nightmares of losing his mother, of the Witch-Queen Artys-Gran, and of his dead wives.

He awakens and learns he's in a decompression chamber to stablize him. Susan and Namor talk about their lost spouses, and rekindle their friendship. However nothing romantic has happened between them. Later in the comic Namor is in bed, reading a book, at Oracle Inc. the company that he owns and runs, he has personal rooms, and a private pool, because he was living there most of the time, when a mysterious shrouded female figure enters in a short robe.

The comic ends in a cliff hanger, and the next comic it's revealed that it was Susan (Storm) Richards. Or is it?

The cover shows Namor kissing Susan while Johnny, Ben, and Lyja look on in shock and horror. The tagline on the inner splash page reads "Someone's been sleeping in my bed".

Namor and Susan get dressed for the day while discussing what happened last night. Namor feels uneasy but doesn't know why.

Namor goes off to his company for a meeting before going to Hydrobase to speak with Andromeda, and the off to see Nita who gives him some advice about dating, a tux, and flowers. Namor's happy but nervous, however when he gets to Fantastic Four and gives the flowers to Susan, Susan is confused and angrily snaps at Namor for touching her.

Ben punches Namor, everyone thinks Namor is trying to make a sleazy move on Susan for some reason, and while Namor's trying to explain and say it's between him and Susan, still believing that she was with him last night, all four of them battle, in the end Lyja shapeshifts into a monster to join the fight, and Namor seeing her change her form realizes that it wasn't Susan who slept with him last night. Mistakenly he believes that Lyja was the woman who came to him last night and attacks her. However he realizes it's not her, but that it was another shapeshifter. He leaves the Fantastic Four, and they follow.

Phoebe Marrs, an employee who took over running Oracle, and a recurring character from the series (earlier on in the series it was implied that her son's father was her twin brother Desmond, and Desmond died by suicide, however she's been seeing his "ghost") Namor figures out that the "ghost" is real, and it was a shapeshifter, his theory is right and it's revealed that Llyra has been around for ages posing as both Desmond and Phoebe on occasion. Also Llyra (as Phoebe) slept with both Jim Hammond (earlier in the series Jim thought he was sleeping with Phoebe who came onto him, so he was shocked to learn that it was Llyra, so she had raped him as she had Namor), and Leon McKenzie (*sigh* a secret son of Leonard McKenzie/his second wife, who then had a son named Leon, who would be Namor's nephew and works at Oracle, no one cares or remembers him).

At this reveal and the realization that he slept with his most hated enemy, again the woman who has poisoned his cousin Namora, who killed Lady Dorma, and helped kill his father, a woman he despises. A woman who since day 1 has wanted Namor romantically even though he never wanted her in that way. A woman Namor has vowed to kill in revenge for Dorma's death. Llyra raped him because he would have never slept with her if he knew. He snapped, and tries to kill her, and demands to know "why?", and Llyra spits on him as an answer. Namor tries to kill her, but is stopped by Susan. His hurt, his pain, his abuse, his rape is met with a "so what?" "no matter what she did to you, you can't kill her". Namor can't kill his rapist because Susan says he can't. Llyra then says he can't because she is pregnant with his child (She's not, it's Leon's child) and Namor is shocked, he lets her go, calls her a sick woman, Namor chooses not to press charges against Llyra and let's her go.

Then Namor loses it, like he starts laughing manically, and it makes the Fantastic Four uncomfortable so they just leave. Namor doesn't tell the rest of the Fantastic Four that he is sterile (this has since been retconned), and he can't have children, so he doesn't believe Llyra is pregnant with his child.

Later Susan shows up to check up on Namor, and he tells her he wanted to be alone with his shame, and they discuss how they could never be.

Then for some stupid reason Herdling has Susan and Namor kiss. It makes no sense, but Herdling liked the idea of Namor/Sue, but though the writer wanted, he knew he couldn't go further than a kiss. (Back Issue interview) I suppose people could look at it as a "a comfort/pity kiss" but honestly I hate the Namor/Sue ship too much to see it as anything but a writer's ship preference. People point to it to say Susan cheated on Reed by kissing Namor (this is the ONE time this happens) but at this point in the comics Reed is "dead". I hate when people try to say Susan is a cheating slut so it feels so disingenuous to say this was a kiss made of love or lust or whatever, instead of acknowledging that the writer really wanted to get a Namor/Sue kiss in.

Personally I think the issue of what happened to Namor is very overlooked by fans and creators, that Namor is a victim of rape, and how although it is acknowledged in it's moment, people still don't give it the gravitas it deserved, especially for a character like Namor. True this comic didn't brush off or ignore what Llyra did to Namor, but by the end of it, the Namor/Sue kiss, it really does feel like "ok, Namor is a little sad but he's ok once Susan REALLY gave him a kiss" so it does feel like the writer brushed off the effects of his abuse.

What's more, why? why would Namor ever feel comfortable kissing Susan when her likeness was used to hurt him? Why would be ok with any physical touch or sex or kissing when just a day before he was raped? Again, comics do not handle the fall out of rape well at all.

Now with Aaron writing Namor, and underwater politics, and a war for the Atlantean throne, I suppose we'll see if Llyra will ever return to make a play for the throne that she wants so badly, but I won't be surprised if Aaron doesn't ever use Llyra, because then he'd have to actually write about Namor confronting his rapist after Namor left Llyra to die in Fantastic Four Unlimited (1993) #11 (she survived somehow of course, but she hasn't interacted with Namor since.)

Anyways like Namor's canon PTSD, we won't get much depth into heavy subject matter and deeper characterization unless a good writer really wants to write it. And that's the full story of Namor's rape in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #49-50.

56 notes · View notes

dennisboobs · 1 year ago

Text

i don't think i've discussed this on tumblr before outside of a few offhand mentions, but a while back i put together scraps pointing to the fact that all of dennis' erotic memoirs were written while he was in high school, primarily backed up by the fact that the two additional memoirs posted on the official paddy's pub blog as well as the other two that were adapted into a dvd extra, which either directly mention this

(which makes him 16-17) and explicitly ends with him allegedly having sex with multiple adult women and a tiger, or implies it – dennis saying he drank 12 mugs of "mead" then later saying it was "brandywine", which is very much not mead while also specifically mentioning a non-alcoholic beer sign. the NJ location of medieval times opened in '90; he mentions going with A Companion (which was probably a date he drove there, not mac or charlie,) so I'd place this around the same time (16-17), after he got his license, but before he was legal drinking age.

when he first reads from his memoirs in 4x09, he narrates one that states "she was much, much older than me", and in the dvd extras he also recounts sleeping with a "matronly" japanese woman who also ended up being a "good deal older" than he had thought she was, and notably says, "nestled in her ample womb, i became a man" which has. certain implications.* in the second dvd extra he also says "i'm pretty sure i was her first" re: the random woman who he's picked up, which i'd say was originally written and intended to have taken place when he was significantly younger. obviously the reenactment has them both as 30-something yr old adults, but smut film also has him reprising the role of his 14 year old self, so it's not without precedent. he also starts off saying this is from chapter two, and the prior story was from chapter one, implying both are extremely early on in the memoirs

there's also the fact that charlie had stolen the memoirs for an unspecified length of time, long enough for dennis to comment on how long it'd been since he'd seen them. we can assume he likely stopped writing the memoirs entirely once he got his recording setup, which would've been around the time he moved in with mac somewhere around '98 when they bought the bar, putting him around 21/22. but the earliest memoir we know of dates back to 1991, when he was 14, then another confirmed to be in 1993/1994. additionally we only see him adding to the book when he's institutionalized (which is implied to have been some sort of hallucination, so it's arguable that even happened) and in the dvd extras (with a quill but no ink, so i don't know how that would've worked).

tldr; dennis sleeping with older women while underage was a pattern, possibly before klinsky, definitely after, and all but one of his memoirs seem to explicitly detail this abuse.

*i'm fairly certain this was his account of losing his virginity, and i believe this predates klinsky. if this truly is "chapter one" of the book, then it's more or less confirmed, but this memoir is also an interesting outlier because dennis actually has an emotional reaction after sex and goes back on his ~pinkie promise~ about not falling in love with her. just like with klinsky, she's portrayed as alluring (something that makes up for her age in dennis' eyes, also similar to the memoir snippet we hear him read in 4x09) and there's a heavy focus on her being motherly, but she is very much depicted as predatory as well (particularly via editing choices – clearly depicting her as a cougar – but also dennis' narration), with her seducing him, then Separating Entirely.

#ada speaks #cw csa mention #ive been thinking about all this shit bc its related to the essay im working on too but like. man.#dennis reynolds #iasip

67 notes · View notes

howlingday · 7 months ago

Note

If ren and pyra where faunus what do you think they would be?

I have a feeling ren might be a frog or a gecko

So I'm a guy who usually only plays around with the Faunus traits on RWBY characters, either for education or to just share something fun that I learned about these animals DESPITE CRWBY constantly hammering in unfun statements like "Blake isn't a cat, she's a cat Faunus". But I digress... I think.

Ren and Pyrrha, though, as Faunus would be a pretty neat concept and I've played around with them on more than one occasion. I've seen Ren being portrayed as a sloth and sloth bear a few times, though I personally see him more suited with snake features. Mostly because the first time we see him, he kills a King Taijitu using martial arts/aura, and my head instantly clicks to snake-style kung fu. As for Pyrrha, I've seen her as a fox, a dog, and I've played with her as a tiger.

For story purposes, I'd make Ren a Snake Faunus and Pyrrha a Lion Faunus.

Ren would have venomous fangs and would occasionally do that cute snake yawn where his mouth expands. This is for nothing more than fan-service. Trust me, everyone will love sleepy snake yawn. They'll put it on a shirt.

Pyrrha as a lion Faunus as to her whole "Invincible Girl" brand, maybe even calling her "The Lion of Sanctum". This would also make her rivalry with Arslan Altan interesting, too, with their battle at Sanctum being called "The Battle of the Lions". Pyrrha would be put up on a pedestal all the more, even getting fan-mail from the White Fang. And yet the only person who still doesn't recognize Pyrrha after all this attention is some blond kid with an upset tummy on planes.

#rwby #my thoughts #lie ren #pyrrha nikos #my answer #my answers

15 notes · View notes

astrophilic-soul · 2 years ago

Note

for the ask game, 20 and 7? And also, u don't have to answer but I'm curious how u would change India's characterization/how u would improve on it :0

Hey babe, Hetalia ask game dropped!

Thank you for the ask! Sorry for this being so so late sahdk

20) Answered here

7) Food-related headcanon? (im hungry)

India: I definitely think he'd be a sucker for spicy food. But I also think he'd absolutely love extremely sweet food. This is based on personal experiences, but Indian food has a extremely sweet to extremely spicy side lol. For example, some foods that are on the wayyy too sweet side for me personally are Barfi, Jaleebi and Kesari (I do enjoy them tho lol). So, I think that India definitely cares a lot about the favor and experience the food gives a person :)

As for India's characterization! Ok, I've been thinking about this since the day you sent me this ask lol and I really hope you don't mind but the first bit is a bit rant-ish to clear up some misconceptions.

So first thing I really want for people to understand India is that, it is not just the North. There is no 'dominant' culture, and Hindi is spoken as more of a connecting language more than like- a first language by a lot of people that live in places other than what I like to call the "Hindi Belt"

1)The Idea of Northern Culture as a 'dominating' culture does not make sense and kinda erases the other cultures that live and very much thrive in India today. If you went and only toured around North India, you would see a huge difference between cultures up there alone! I understand that this idea that Northern Culture dominates India is from the wide spread knowledge of Bollywood. But India's really diverse! We even have a lot of film industries for each language! Tollywood, Kollywood, Mollywood, Sandalwood, etc. But, I'm getting off topic, Northern Culture does not 'dominate' the majority of Indian Culture, and Northern Culture itself is very hard to define because it's diverse! From Rajistan to Punjab, the cultural differences are very different in the north, so imagine the differences from north India to the south- not even accounting for the tribal cultures in each state!

2) Most Indian languages stem off of two language families: Indo-Aryan and Dravidian and if you look on a map of language families, you can almost see a clear line between these languages. Within those branches, stems of languages, a lot of them are still spoken today. So making Hindi the only language India speaks doesn't make that much sense to me and erases literally every other culture living and very much thriving today!

How I'd Improve it in the Anime

For an Anime that's portraying nations based on stereotypes, I would say- it could be worse lol. I do get why Hima portrayed India like that, I mean it's not as bad as some other media I've seen that portrays India as: "Taj Mahal, Snake charmers, Tiger, Elephant, Elephant, Middle Eastern Culture for some reason". So for a anime about stereotypes it's not that bad lol. There's maybe like two things I'd change?:

-Make India a little more easy to anger than easy going. I guess hetalia is about stereotypes and the stereotype is that Indians are very "Yoga, Buddhism/Hinduism, Rangoli" not about actual cultural stuff of characters, but yeah I'd probably make him a little bit more of a hot head lol

-Make him appear more in the anime/manga!! He only shows up like three times and usually in background roles, micro-nations show up more than him T-T

My Own Characterization

Some positives:

Kindness: I feel like India is very generous and nice to everyone he meets. When he meets a new country or person he usually tries to be as nice and respectful as he can with them before forming an opinion about them. I'm just basing this off of age. I feel like at a certain point (as with most ancient nations), he realized that country's relationships with each other are very unexpected and so he tries to start off on a good note.

Emotionally Resilient: This might be a given because he is a nation lol, they've lived a long time and can adapt to unexpected situations really easily. I also feel like because he's an ancient, he still feels those knee-jerk emotions/reactions but it takes more to trigger them if that makes sense.

Makes Connections Easily: A large part of Indian culture, is family and community. Families, back then often lived in one house. Often with an opening in the middle where the family hangs out or lived in a community of houses close to each other. So I definitely feel like he gets close to people very easily and often treats them as family.

Flaws:

I feel like in his early years India would have been easy-to-anger and have some amount of arrogance? It's just two traits that I've seen amplified, if not glorified, by Indian movies because they're seen as very masculine traits to have (in general).

Easy-to-Anger: Because of how long India's lived, I feel like he has a lot more patience now days but certain topics or someone being insistent might make him quick to anger.

Arrogance: I feel like arrogance is something all nations have, it's a given, but again, time and experience wears it down. So, I feel like compared to other nations, he's more down to earth, but still pretty arrogant.

Stubborn: He is stubborn, he protests heavily for the the things he believes in and does not stop until he gets his way. He can remember something that someone said centuries ago and continue to do something just to spite them.

General Headcannons:

He loves Dance, Music and the Arts: In India, Classical Dances are very important. It was used for entertainment, religious purposes and also used for storytelling! There are some that are similar to theater, there are dancers telling the story of a mythological event, dances that are related to gods, or dances that were simply made to entertain royals.

And regional music where do I start! Indian music is diverse, and there are a lot that I could mention from my state alone! There are different rhythms, elements, instruments, different focuses, and sometimes you'll clearly hear some outside influences with the music styles! I just absolutely love the idea of India dancing, and singing because it's such a huge part of culture

Loves Science: I really think he does have a thing for science, not only because of the recent interest of science in India but also because of how much Ancient India contributed to science! I think he would go to a lot of science/math conferences nowadays to meet scientists/mathematicians and learn about new theories and technologies.

India's doesn't really have a name: This is just a personal headcanon of mine lol and not really based of anything in particular. I HC that India didn't really have a name throughout history, and he changed it often depending on where he was and names of the time period. I think it's because of the difficult question is "what is India/Indian culture and what is its one and true descendant?". The answer could be many things. How do you define the culture of a nation that has a lot of cultures in it? Thus, how do you choose a name for a country when that name doesn't make sense for him to have in other parts of the country?

Gender, Religion, Identity: I think India identity's very fluid, and he doesn't label himself. I really liked how @thegoliathbeetle phrased this in her post! India's identity is like water, it shifts, transforms and changes. It doesn't stay constant and if you ask him who he is he would give you a different answer depending on the time and place. (I really agree with her post and I would def check it out if you haven't!)

#This was really fun! I did kinda rant a lot- so really sorry about that lol #aph india #hws india #other hetalia stuff #asks

13 notes · View notes

johnnygma · 8 months ago

Note

@tiger-moran made some good points in the tags as well! I would love to see more focus on the parallels that clearly exist between Holmes and Moriarty (and Watson and Moran, too). One of the most fascinating aspects of the Moriarty character to me has always been that, in basic personality, he's essentially Holmes if he had decided to become a criminal. BBC Sherlock even makes this connection by having Moriarty be a Consulting Criminal, whereas Holmes is a Consulting Detective. There's a mutual sense of admiration between Holmes and Moriarty, they both recognise each other as equals and know that they're of a very similar mind. If Moriarty wasn't an outright villain (who basically only wants to kill Holmes because he's the only one who could stop him), him and Holmes would make an interesting duo and the two would probably have quite a lot in common. Imagine an adaptation where the two are forced to work together because there is an even greater evil than Moriarty himself! You could play with their similarities, which are occasionally opposed by their differing moralities.

There's also an obvious parallel between Watson and Moran as well. Moran is a former soldier who now works for a consultant. The Moriarty/Moran dynamic is, in all of its basics, *very* close to the Holmes/Watson partnership. Just as Holmes could find an equal in Moriarty, so could Watson find one in Moran as well. Despite all its flaws, the Robert Downey Jr. movies do actually somewhat make an effort to show the parallels between the Holmes/Watson and Moriarty/Moran partnerships. I've never really seen any other adaptation do that, the only other one that comes to mind is "Moriarty the Patriot" which is good at showing why people like Moran are devoted to Moriarty and how complex his crime system management actually is.

Also, one minor detail: I love when Moriarty is portrayed as Irish. That's why I was so happy to see Andrew Scott in the role! Because Moriarty is an Irish last name, so I would love to see actors leaning a little more into that aspect when they perform the role.

After reading your answer about Irene, it got me thinking. How would you like Moriarty to be adapted?

Would you make him the ultimate evil to defeat which ends Holmes' life like ACD intended or would you make him a villain to defeat after whom come others?

Personally, I'd love to see both his professor persona and his criminal mastermind persona. Kinda like how Mads Mikkelsen played Hannibal Lecter and his "person suit".

Oh, that's a good question! On the one hand, I always get a bit giggly when Moriarty is introduced in a Holmes adaptation since he is THE Holmes adversary. On the other hand, I've always said that Moriarty's importance within the Holmes canon is often overemphasised because he literally only makes one in-person appearance in the entire canon of 60 stories.

I certainly want his professor persona to be more focused on as well. Just as many adpations sometimes tend to forget that Watson is a doctor, they equally tend to forget that Moriarty is a professor of mathematics. I would love to see an inclusion of his knowledge of maths and numbers, I think you could easily connect that to his high intelligence and ability to create/organise an entire criminal network. Maybe something along the line of a "gentleman villain"; someone who doesn't have to rely on violence or evil speeches. The sheer reach, power, and superior intelligence Moriarty has is threatening enough (as a recent example: Robert Downey Jr. movies actually kinda nail that aspect of Moriarty).

Personally, I would like to say that it depends. If the adaptation is a TV show, like Sherlock or Elementary, then I would like to see some build-up to an eventual Moriarty reveal. However, I would not make him the THE final big villain of the story. After all, he wasn't that in the original canon either. Have a build-up to Moriarty, deal with him, and then move on. I didn't like how, e.g., in BBC Sherlock, EVERYTHING seemed to be connected to Moriarty in one way, shape, or form. He is not THAT big of a deal, there are other interesting villains in the canon to draw from.

Now, if you make a movie, I would approach it differently. If you make a single, stand-alone fun Holmes movie, the villain doesn't have to be Moriarty, it really doesn't have to be. You can have an interesting Sherlock Holmes mystery without getting Moriarty involved. Now, if it's a movie series, I guess it kinda depends. Again, you would need a bit of build-up, but I also wouldn't mind if there isn't much fanfare surrounding a Moriarty reveal. However, if you make a movie that's only, like, 2 hours long and you want Moriarty to be in it, he HAS TO leave a memorable impression. Actually similar to what you mentioned, Moriarty has to be a bit like Hannibal Lecter: a sense of unsettling calm and high intelligence, but he shouldn't overshadow the story and other characters too much (like Lecter in Silence of the Lambs).

I know, I don't seem like I can give a definitive answer on this one 😅 I definitely would love to see Moriarty more as a gentleman-ask mastermind who relies on his knowledge of mathematics and the psychology of people. I understand why he is treated with great fanfare, however, I sometimes think his importance to the Holmes canon and character is overemphasised. I would love to see other antagonists/criminals from the canon be used for more adaptations, e.g. Sebastian Moran, Charles A. Milverton, the Baron from The Illustrious Client, or the King of Bohemia. Adpations basically need to learn that Moriarty was (only) special because he was created to kill off Sherlock Holmes, but that the detective has dealt with many other criminals as well.

#jim moriarty #james moriarty #sherlock holmes #sherlock #moran #sebastian moran #john watson #doctor watson #watson #sir arthur conan doyle

13 notes · View notes

thenightlymartini · 2 years ago

Note

Would you happen to have any cuddle head canons, so to say? Or how the other would comfort/react to the other when they're seemingly at their lowest point, like beyond burnt out or something? Thank you and I hope you're doing well :D!

Hello, it has been a minute since I've posted much. A lot has gone on, including a death in the family, so life is not going well at the moment. I'll slowly begin posting again, but not as much as I used to; mostly just to keep my mind busy.

Before I begin I want to apologize for my last post that has since been deleted, as I said some very insensitive things which resulted in some people being very upset. I most certainly didn't intend for any of it to come across that way and I should have not answered the question at all and should have seriously thought about what I typed before I posted. The only thing I wish did happen out of the issue was people to contact me directly in a civil manner about it rather than through harassment and spreading more hate.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if some of these seem a little off. Some of the interactions and feelings portrayed are similar to what I'm going through at the moment.

Kimchiburger:

Cuddling

Typically these two are pretty casual about cuddling, like just an arm around the other or over the shoulders if just hanging out. The more intimate kind tends to come either after getting frisky with each other or if they need some comfort when they are struggling emotionally. SK tends to be like a mother hen with cuddling when America starts getting self-conscious about himself or what people say during the meetings, with lots of whispering sweet nothings and reassurance. America usually has to ask first if SK needs to cuddle, because there are some cases where SK doesn't want to be touched, particularly when the Korean is unsure exactly how he is feeling and needs to figure that out first.

Lowest Point (CW: mentions of 9/11, vague mentions of the Korean War, depression, dark thoughts including self-loathing and questioning one's existence)

Probably some of the lowest points SK has seen America at usually correlates with his people or what happens, such as 9/11, or events tend to be the catalyst for some of his mental breakdowns, often going silent or his voice simply sounds so raw and defeated and completely lacking any energy or will to do anything. As such, SK tends to have to have a sit down with America and listen first, then comfort after, as sometimes the real reason for America's breakdown isn't as apparent or there is a lot more to it. For instance, America is very self-conscious about his reputation in the world and how he treats his own people and seriously struggles between trying to be a decent human being with his duties as a nation. As such, he views such tragic events as a failure on his behalf for not finding the balance between his duties and his wants as a human. He wants to be a good guy and genuinely help people (which can do the exact opposite since he is terrible at reading the room and putting himself in another's headspace), but his government makes him more of a bad guy and he knows there isn't a whole lot he can do about it, or he is reminded that sometimes he would go along with the government's plans and actions, and he regrets it a lot.

America was there when SK essentially was torn away from NK and, in a sense, "lost" him. He still feels guilt for partially causing it and knows that this still haunts SK to this day. This particular memory tends to be the beginning of a domino effect for SK or his mental state will link back to it no matter how removed the initial problem was, as there is so much history to unpack that it causes him to spiral into a deep depression. One of the most common issues that occurs is when he feels he is being crushed under the expectations of competing with his neighbors, becoming one of the "four Asian tiger" economies, or feels he is failing everyone around him. He's broken down to America in tears before about how NK was so much better at these kinds of things growing up and he wonders why the both of them were needed as representations when they were one nation, along with self-degrading about how the only thing he was somewhat good at over his brother was diplomacy and, due to that, he was doomed to fail and wondered why he even bothered trying in the first place. America, once he got the okay to cuddle or hold him, has to be very, very tactful about what he says, but tends to go with reminding him that he is good at his job and that he is trying his best, or to ignore politics and look at himself as a person. He would remind him that he is wanted, loved, and needed as a person. America would go so far as to express how much SK changed his life for the better and how he was always there like a lighthouse in his darkest times or lost, and that he will do the same for him.

RusNK:

Cuddling

Considering how cold it can get in both of their countries, these two tend to cuddle for warmth, both in the physical and mental sense. Even when in a warm house, cuddling is like an emotional comfort in of itself without the need for words. To just be in each other's presence and have their need for touch fulfilled is enough. Often they cuddle on the couch, sometimes just holding each other or one on the other's lap, and could be doing differently things, like scrolling on their phone or reading a book (sometimes they both are reading either different books or the same book, either with their own copies or sharing one). Cuddling is never something casual for them on the surface. It provides the peace of mind knowing that a loved one is right there, maybe even just a breath away, and won't go anywhere.

Lowest Point (CW: vague mentions of the Korean War)

These two share a lot in common with family and politics, particularly politics causing a rift between them and their families, as well as the subsequent isolation they feel or are subject to by the rest of the global community.

Russia was there when NK had to separate from SK, and was sort of there during the subsequent war a few years later. Though he barely knew him enough then, he felt the anguish, anger, and sadness the other was feeling, simply because he knew what that was like when he had to separate from Ukraine and Belarus a few times during his history. Years later, and, anytime NK starts having thoughts about that time or can't break out of a depression episode and sleep eludes him due to insomnia, he willingly will do anything to simply be there for him through it all. He's stayed awake with him on nights they were together when episodes like this would happen. NK doesn't like that he drags Russia into his mess, but Russia reminds him that he doesn't want NK to feel alone and he will not let the other be alone like he had to endure before. These types of situations are what causes their cuddling to never be superficial or casual, as it conveys to each other that they are not alone in their suffering and sadness.

NK has seen Russia upset, sad, depressed, jaded, but he has rarely seen Russia have a full mental breakdown. One that sticks to him personally was when Russia, shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union, was sent by his new boss to sever ties politically with him. Russia slammed the papers down in a fit of anguish and broke down crying in front of him, saying how humans, no matter what political ideology they believed, were so cruel that they were trying to take away yet another loved one, possibly one of the few who still cared since even his older sister was distancing herself from him. The Slavic nation even started going manic saying they could runaway together and, if they rejected being nations hard enough, that they could lose their immortality and someone else would take their place, just so they could stay together. NK, despite having emotional whiplash from it all, including a brief debate on whether to adhere to his duties as a nation or to be human for once, grabbed Russia by his scarf to hold him still and to look at him, telling him that they couldn't do that due to the unlikelihood of that happening, but that, for once, they need to put their feet down and will stay together in spite of politics. He would remind him that they both have lost too much for their government's sake and that they will not let them take each other away. He could care less if the world isolated them if it meant they were isolated together, because, echoing what Russia had always said to him in his darkest moments, like hell they would leave each other to suffer alone. NK didn't care if they were public about it or had to be secretive, as long as they remained each other's.

Commieburger:

Cuddling

In the beginning, their cuddling was super clumsy and awkward since both of the them were struggling with separating the nation from the person. Like, first time America tried to cuddle NK was on a couch watching a movie and he was so scared that NK would hate it that he laid his arm on the back of the couch behind the Korean. He tried so hard to make it look casual but it was like a robotic arm that needed a serious amount of lubrication in the joints. Thankfully, NK is better at reading people and the atmosphere, so he more or less understood America was trying to not push or break boundaries if the other wasn't ready. Not to say he wasn't awkward himself when he practically yanked the other's arm onto his shoulders and leaned into America's side.

Once they were used to it they are in some of the weirdest positions for cuddling, or the definition is applied very loosely. America knows NK is touch-starved to an extent and likes the comfort of being close, but they aren't always wanting to be all mushy with each other all the time. So some of their solutions tend to be a mix of casual and cute, like NK laying his legs across America's lap and they hold hands while occupied with something else, like watching TV or reading something. Or another one would be after they had an extremely petty, childish argument but are craving the other's touch and not quite ready to admit they were being petty or were wrong, so they just lean into each other's shoulders or sides. Not to say they don't have some mushy times like NK on America's lap or America resting his head on NK's lap; those just tend to be when they are more intimate rather than casual.

Lowest Point

When America is at his lowest, he's very distant and quiet due to being lost in his own thoughts, and usually words cut through him more than actions do. Usually this is due to things people say to his face at meetings, sometimes talking about his diet or weight, but some of them are even more hurtful or make the others look more superficial, like some of the more direct nations bluntly stating how he's causing more havoc and chaos than help or that he's super blind and naïve to his government's true goals and/or reasons. These kinds of words make him question most of his short existence, including if he was being selfish or making things worse by having a relationship with NK. When NK notices America is off, usually due to rejecting food, refusing eye contact, and his body language making him look smaller, he's more forward about asking what's wrong. For once, he has to force America to talk when he's like this, and even then he sounds just completely broken. Usually, he lets America rest his head on his shoulder or on his lap and just walk him through what happened or what was said while he runs his fingers through his hair and listens while giving the occasional advice or reassurance. America only ever mentioned the questioning of their relationship once, and NK essentially threw back America's own advice on how communication and relationships are a two way street. If he hadn't wanted a relationship with America or felt that it would be wrong, he would have told him off right then and there instead of taking a chance. In the end, no matter how difficult or convoluted their relationship was, he would still choose him.

America is extremely empathetic when NK is at his lowest, which usually is a result of trying to unpack a lot of issues that span centuries in one evening that leads to him being an emotional wreck and emotionally drained by the end of the day. He loves his spitfire of a boyfriend, and he easily forgets that he's so much older than him in nation terms; seen so much more, been through it all, and still very much hurting under his prickly guise. A lot of times all he can do is just hold him and listen, providing a venting outlet for him. From his talks with SK, he knows NK shouldered a lot and internalized a lot for the sake of his younger twin, so it's the least he can do to allow NK to finally feel what he's swallowed down for centuries and work through it all when he needs to in a more positive manner. He gives reassurance when he can, but most of the comfort he provides is through physical means or through actions, such as borderline pampering him for the rest of the following day, cooking for him, sweet cuddles, and anything else to have the other remember that he's loved and will be there when he needs a shoulder to cry on.

#hetalia #aph #hws #kimchiburger #rusnk #commieburger #aph america #hws america #aph south korea #hws south korea #aph russia #hws russia #aph north korea #hws north korea #im sang kyu #im yong soo #alfred f jones #ivan braginsky

16 notes · View notes

theyscreamjade · 4 years ago

Note

hello!!, i'm back. 👉👈

i've been thinking this like for a whole day and bcs i looove your writings and your whole blog *chef kiss* and well i wanted to see some headcanons for katsuki, shoto and tokoyami when they have a mission with their s/o and she has this psychosomatic illusion quirk.

i think it's just a little too much, you don't have to pressure yourself to make it.

remember to stay hydrated and healthy, take good care of yourself. 🥺

-🌸

It’s Just An Illusion

My dear flower, how I missed you so. I’m sorry, I’ve been slacking on my self-care and I do plan to improve myself. I apologize ahead.

Disclaimer: Traumatic Events, Slight Gore.

————————————————————————————————————————

* A few things to get straight with Tokoyami before we dive into this.

* This dark bird is more than a kick-ass character with a shadow that has awesome shadow to help him.

* I for one, believe he’d express his love for you with the smallest of things, like holding your hand, his fingers grazing through your hair, even hugging or holding you close.

* The only setback is his beak, but love always finds a way through anything.

* The first thing he’ll admire how imaginative your mind can get during stressful events.

* That quirk of yours is extremely powerful and is one of a kind, the moment you conjure up something in your head and just make it work.

* You make duplicates of the villain, their worst fear or anything. Animals seem to be your forte though.

* It’s rather insane how you make a tiger attack them and they actually feel it, it’s similar to dark shadow but the set back is that you don’t lose control of your quirk at night.

* You can conjure more than one thing in different ways, one side of the room can have a tiger swarming the terrified villains while a villains discovering how can they find out which is their friend or not.

* Did I mention Dark Shadow loves you? He’s the one more verbal with his works then Tokoyami. He flirts with you on the daily basis every time he has the chance.

* When he’s out, he constantly cheers you on and calls you a assortment of pet names, Bird Seed and Dove seems to be his favorites though.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* One thing about Bakugo, he’s very observant then what he portrays.

* He knew about your quirk and how silently powerful it could be.

* You can copy yourself, others and hell make something absolutely kick ass with your thoughts.

* During this mission, which was a simple one, gather the information about a villain that was on the run from a guy who refused to talk.

* Mind you, you had to break him in ways you wouldn’t agree on. He sorta deserved it though, he threatened your family and attempted to bomb your apartment.

* While he sat in the integrating room, you were disclosed about the fact he had a daughter.

* Just a picture of her, you created the child and he sung like a song bird as soon as she started crying.

* It did hurt when you made her disappear but you had to do what you had. Bakugo knows how sad at times your quirk can be but he admires your work. Like with all things, they come with consequences.

* He loves seeing what crazy things you can make especially for the kids that are fans of you, hearing their soft squeals when they see something straight from their imagination.

* Oh mister softie.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Mister Shoto here, failed to know what your quirk was. He was just assigned with you to steak out a house.

* He immediately took notice to how normal you looked and yet how you didn’t have any normalities or anything.

* The moment the police kicked down the door, your mind created a squad of officers surrounding the house, guns drawn.

* He. Wasn’t. Ready.

* The villains gave in easy and he watched how you investigated the house, still trying to process how you created those officers within a blink.

* Afterwards, he’ll ask then and then he’ll know about you fantastic quirk.

* He’s never seen anything like it, so he may ask a few questions then stop.

* He’s seen the good and bad of your quirk. How it helps the hero’s and sometimes hurt the villains.

* One almost ran mad because you replayed a murder he committed to his view. His eyes watched in horror while seeing what he did and the pain his caused.

* While the good is making a giant animal the kids could ride on when you’re out patrolling.

* He’ll help you through all of it though, he’s not going to let you suffer alone.

#my hero academia #bnha fanfiction #my hero academy fanfiction #my hero academia fanfiction #i hope you like this #my hero academia scenarios #bnha bakugo katsuki #bnha shoto todoroki #bnha tokoyami #tokoyami x you #bakugo x you #shoto x you

27 notes · View notes

sisaloofafump · 5 months ago

Text

I also 100% agree with the original sentiment and love all the details on Hook. However I want to add on to this point because this is where I feel like the awful clickbait content does have some semblance of truth.

The main piece of "evidence" for Peter killing lost boys (and also of them being able to grow up on the island) comes from this line in the 1911 novel:

The boys on the island vary, of course, in numbers, according as they get killed and so on; and when they seem to be growing up, which is against the rules, Peter thins them out;

This in itself is fairly vague and up for interpretation. Talking about their numbers for implies Peter is thinning their ranks out, though I've seen other's interpret it as him moulding them back down to a younger shape. Talking about the boys getting killed right before also lends to the interpretation of Peter thinning their ranks via murder, however that's quite a contentious viewing and retellings like Scarlet choose to portray it as banishment instead.

Now, I've been transcribing the handwritten manuscript and this is how that passage was originally written:

They vary, of course, in numbers, according as they get killed, and so on, and when they seem to be growing up they have to go, it Peter does not care where but go they must, and if he thinks there are too many, he thins them out, much as a bird kicks its eighth from the nest,

Which obviously lends to the banishment interpretation. So, TL;DR: Peter doesn't kill the lost boys?

Well, not so fast.

I feel like as scholars and readers we get so bogged down in the details of a text that we forget some of the overarching events. Namely:

Peter tries to kill Tootles.

It is one of the central events of the chapter The Little House.

"Oh, dastard hand," Peter said, and he raised the arrow to use it as a dagger. Tootles did not flinch. He bared his breast. "Strike, Peter," he said firmly, "strike true." Twice did Peter raise the arrow, and twice did his hand fall. "I cannot strike," he said with awe, "there is something stays my hand."

Banishment, while given to Tink just a few paragraphs later, is not even brought up as a possibility for Tootles who is currently suspected for having killed Wendy. An eye for an eye. Arguably, you could read this as Peter just planning on injuring Tootles, but the general effect is the same: Peter may have little/no qualms over injuring the boys.

Now, to be clear, I don't think we're supposed to see Peter as the cunning manipulative fully evil devil that these clickbait articles make him out to be, and I especially don't think that Hook is trying to rescue them from Peter (considering how often he tries to kill them as well). But I don't think the interpretation that Peter kills lost boys is entirely incorrect—though it is just that: an interpretation.

----

While I'm on the subject I thought I'd bring up the concept of Peter as a protector of children. Let's look at the main main motivations he has for rescuing people in the novel. In The Mermaids' Lagoon:

He was less sorry than Wendy for Tiger Lily: it was two against one that angered him, and he meant to save her.

and when he hears that Wendy has been kidnapped in Do You Believe in Fairies?:

Peter’s heart bobbed up and down as he listened. Wendy bound, and on the pirate ship; she who loved everything to be just so! “I'll rescue her!” he cried, leaping at his weapons. As he leapt he thought of something he could do to please her.

In these instances, Peter is not solely rescuing them because of their vulnerability, but because they disrupt the order of how things should be.

Additionally, who is Peter shown to be a caretaker for/associated with? Already dead children.

Is this where the theory that Peter is an angel of death comes from? Maybe? I feel like that's just another clickbait part. However:

1. The Novel. 2. 1904 production notes 3. 1903ish play typescript

And if we ignore the horrendous formatting of the following we can see how, when he is protecting the lost children in Kensington Gardens it is because it is what "he believes real boys would do".

----

Wow these thoughts have gotten too long. I have other notes on the idea of whether or not people can grow on the Neverland, but I'll save that for another time.

In summary: I believe that Peter is a well-rounded and incredibly complex character and I do believe that he cares about those he takes under his wing. However, a lot of Barrie's lore is intentionally left up to interpretation, and I do not think it incorrect to believe that Peter would kill a lost boy, nor that his protection of them can come from a selfish source. Also idea of him being an angel of death or similar is not completely unfounded.

I'm not sure how much I believe either of those points, but, well, they're just theories.

"We want more morally grey characters"

Y'all couldn't even read Peter Pan without claiming he's evil and the real villain of the story. Frick, y'all didn't even actually read it, you watched clickbait YouTube videos.

#anyway i do really love the og post and what it stands for #sorry for how incredibly long this is #i just #care a lot about these stories #my rambles #peter pan #j m barrie

383 notes · View notes

hamliet · 6 years ago

Note

I just read your latest bsd meta and you've really put into words what I've been feeling with how the story portrays akutagawa's conflicting ideals. I really found it odd how he claims taking life is how he gives his own life value while also hoping for kyoka to see value in her life. I really liked your meta!! 1/

2/ I found it interesting how you said atsushi will probably lose the next battle. If you dont mind, I'd love to hear more about it! I always felt it would end in a stalemate with both sides nearly killing the other. Mostly because akutagawa will begin to feel remorse over taking lives (as he will not be killing and instead sparing the people he is assigned to target) and atsushi will also refuse to take a life.

Thank you so much for your kind words!

A stalemate is definitely possible. I presume before this fight happens, since every single arc ends in a shin soukoku fight (whether each other or a common enemy), we’re going to have to see them team up to take down the Hunting Dogs and Tachihara (which is gonna be a maaaaajor challenge to Akutagawa’s “do not kill” challenge since like. He hurt Gin--she’s fine though, no real chance of her being dead).

The reason I personally predict Atsushi losing, but Akutagawa sparing his life, is because it offers a lot more in terms of character growth and I love that sweet angst. We’ve seen Atsushi defeat Akutagawa before, so that’s probably not gonna happen again because there’s nothing narrative to be gained. A stalemate could offer some things for sure so I’m not gonna rule that out, but at some point in the story, Akutagawa should spare Atsushi’s life because it’d be a renunciation of his contradictory “strength is killing” ideas, and it would give Atsushi some growth as well by challenging his view of Akutagawa and his own life.

But of course, it’s possible the inevitable Hunting Dogs teamup will offer a bit of this. We’ll see. But there is also this:

Atsushi. That is not. A good plan.

It’s just ironic that he’s telling Akutagawa that strength is not how he sees it (ie not killing people) but then plans to train to become physically strong and beat Akutagawa through physical strength to free himself from the shadow of the orphanage master. He won’t free himself from the shadows (Akutagawa, tiger, which both represent fears of himself that his master used to tell him) by physical fighting, but by accepting them as a part of himself.

He’s right though that Akutagawa learning to respect life is key to Akutagawa integrating with Atsushi, but he doesn’t seem to realize he also needs to learn to understand Akutagawa more. This could happen before the fight though, which would be fine, but it should happen at some point. I also still think Dazai needs to play a role in their final reconciliation so. We shall see.

For further reading, may I recommend this absolutely excellent meta by my friend @linkspooky? It really lays out Akutagawa’s arc and how Atsushi plays into it, with references to the literature works of their authors.

#ask hamliet #bsd meta #bungou stray dogs #akutagawa ryunosuke #atsushi nakajima #bsd theory #shin soukoku #Anonymous

48 notes · View notes

rrivn · 6 years ago

Note

oh, is it halley loving hours? who am i kidding, it's /always/ halley loving hours. i've dipped in & out of this fandom since freaking 2015 but i don't think i've ever seen anyone portray vanitas unapologetically as you do. you don't water him down or avoid the darker topic surrounding his character -- you embrace it all, you take what canon was too scared to do & amplify it in a way that makes sense. he's cruel, manipulative, cunning, powerful, downright horrifying & it's /incredible/. ( 1/3 )

he feels like an organic, three dimensional character in your hands. you bring him to life, you explain his motivations, you explore why he might act a certain way. you’re not interested in redeeming him, or writing him in a way that does disservice to the essence of what he is, which is insanely refreshing from an outsiders perspective but also as a ven roleplayer. your vanitas complements my ven so beautifully; their dynamic feels as important & deep as it deserved to be in canon ( 2/3 ) i wasn’t expecting to fall as deeply in love with your portrayal as i did, nor was i expecting your vanitas to be as deeply integral to my ventus as he is. the things that we’ve plotted for these two & the things we have planned leave me so excited for what the future brings. to be completely cheesy, but openly honest: you complete me, as your vanitas completes my ven. i can’t wait to continue writing with you & help you explore his character the way he deserves ( 3/3 )

out. is that icon even clear, i——crouching tiger hidden dragons ur ass thyme, i hate you for making my cheeks sizzle and my jaw fall off, jesus christ; i’m still in pain from smiling at this. first of all my development should be in no parts credited to you more than once over since - had it not been for your blog and your love for ventus - i’m very certain i would’ve deleted at several different points over the last couple of months or so. you’re very much an anchor for me - not just in terms of being a main and a person i admire on and off the dash, but someone i wholeheartedly want to please and want to do all i can to make you happy, because you genuinely are a sort that’s hard to find, and you are endlessly endearing and warm, and you deserve it profoundly. i’m in awe, frequently, over how natural and integrated ventus feels in you; how permanent an effect i know you and this experience will have on my life in general, having met you, having come to think of you as highly as i do. i FELT the excitement you had before making his blog and knowing too that ‘coming home’ sensation of returning to this muse that you knew ran so deeply in you and your personality even in your day to day. you got me excited about their dynamic; as before you i was so doubtful that i would even mix well with the existing blogs here, that my views would be too polarising or damning, and that i’d be shirked for not shipping one thing, or having some other opinion that didn’t line up with the canon’s perception of him; yet you’ve accepted both myself and my muse, and it feels so distinctly sincere that i actually feel ?? safe ?? here? like this blog may actually stay around for a while? like it’s wanted? like its?? hm. i guess this is just a long-winded thank you, for not having given up on us, or for becoming as close as you are. a very dear friend, before everything else, and a connection i want to keep forever. i want to make you as happy as i can knowing i’m in the company of literal greatness. keep needing me!!

#wingbladed #save.#c: —— like real people do; ( ooc. )#today has been .. good.#long post /#psa /#i love you

1 note · View note

warriorqueen1991 · 7 years ago

Text

Part: One

Characters: Jeffrey Dean Morgan x Hilarie Burton

Warnings: Drinking, Angst, Fluff and Awkwardness

Notes: There is another part to this coming out today so you guys won't have to wait too long lol

Now of course I don't know exactly what went down between these two but from the small amount of info given this is what I'd like to think happened ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

“So I've got a girl you should meet”

Jeff let out a deep sigh as he shoved another shirt into his suitcase holding the phone to his ear with his shoulder “what the hell does that even mean Jensen?”

He could hear the younger man let out an annoyed huff “n-nothing...I just...well...you just got over that thing with Mary and Daneel’s friend just ditched her husband and I figured…”

Jeff growled slamming his suitcase shut “you figured a good rebound is just what the doctor ordered huh?”

“That's not what I said, I know it was rough man…” he sighed causing Jeff to feel a pang of guilt for snapping at him.

“just come out for drinks with us, talk to her...who knows you two might hit it off”.

Jeff snorted “yeah cuz that's exactly what I need, find out I'm not good enough for one women just to get rejected by another”.

“It's just drinks man, just some alcohol with friends” he chuckled.

Jeff ran his hand down his face with a sigh “fine I'll go, but don't try any of that fucking matchmaker shit..”

“I won't, scouts honor!!”

“You were never in the fucking scouts!”

***

“Whoa slow down pops” Jensen chuckled as Jeff downed his fourth shot of whisky. The man looked like he was about ready to throw up, as he eyed the door. Jensen was nursing a glass of scotch as he eyed the older man with great amusement.

Pulling back his coat sleeve Jeff furrowed his brow “h-have you talked to Daneel?”

Jensen smiled raising his eyebrows over his tumbler with a hum. Setting it down on the bar with a wince “take a breath man, they'll be here”.

Jeff rubbed his hands together before ordering another drink, he probably shouldn't of been drinking so much but he couldn't seem to douse the damn butterflies in his stomach. It never failed, every time he opened his heart to a woman they crushed it before tossing it to the curb.

The thought of going through it again while the wound was still fresh terrified him, what would she think of him?

Did she even know he was gonna be here?

Just as he was about to ask, the door opened with a loud jingle. Snapping his eyes to the door his eyes widened, Daneel came through first followed closely by the most beautiful woman Jeff had ever seen.

She was tall and lean, with soft brunette hair that hung to her shoulders in waves. her smile lighting up the room as she followed Daneel, her happiness alone seemed to give the room life.

Jensen caught on to Jeff's enamored look with a deep chuckle “well that's a good sign”.

Jeff didn't hear him, he couldn't hear anything. His eyes locked with the goddess heading their direction, the world going into slow motion like some sort of cheesy romance flick.

Both Jensen and Jeff got to their feet as the two women came to stand beside them. Jensen leaning forward to give Daneel a sweet kiss as she brought her hand up to rest on his chest as she grabbed her friends hand. Her chocolate eyes darting to Jeff with a sweet smile before pulling her around making her giggle.

Daneel’s friend gave him a sweet smile “you ok?”

Raising his brow in confusion he suddenly realized his mouth was still hanging open like a freak. Shaking his head to knock the fog loose he cleared his throat with a soft smile, he could feel the blush working its way up his throat making him drop his chin “y-yeah...sorry”.

Jensen was smiling like an idiot, Daneel biting her lip with a pleased smile as she tugged him away from them “Let's get some drinks”.

Jeff scratched the back of his neck nervously before gripping his earlobe, the woman watched her friend leave them alone before returning her gaze to him. Dropping his hands to stuff in his pockets he shifted before blurting out “I-I'm Jeffrey…”

She smiled “Hilarie”

He smiled brightly, he doesn't know what to say.

He didn't want to blurt out something stupid like…

“you have beautiful hair”.

Jesus christ!!

Hilarie’s bubbling laugh made him chuckle, the deep blush he was positive was burning his dimpled cheeks broadcasting his embarrassment. She toyed with the ends with a smile “thank you, s’not my natural color though” she pouted.

He couldn't stop smiling “m’sure any color looks great on you”.

He felt a wave of happiness flood through him at the blush that dusted her cheeks “you're quite the charmer huh?”

He chuckled “nah I'm a dope, but I'm a happy dope” he loved that he could make her laugh.

“I've uh seen you before ya know!”

He bit his lip with a smirk “ya have?” she nodded poking his chest playfully making him chuckle “you play papa Winchester right?”

He grinned nodding his head as he ran his hand through his hair, just then Daneel and Jensen arrived back with a tray full of shots.

“Let's get shit faced!!”

The girls laughed at Jensen while Jeff shook his head.

****

Hours passed and soon they were all pretty buzzed, Jeff had his head leaning against his hand as Daneel and Hilarie giggled. Jensen was attempting to tie a cherry stem in a knot with his tongue and failing miserably.

“Jeff, jeffy...jeeeeffff you got tequila at home? We...we should deeeefinitely go to your place for tequila”.

Jeff chuckled at his friends drunken ramblings “brother I don't think you need anymore alcohol…”

Hilarie leaned back against his chest with an upside down smile “oh come on...everyone knows it's safer to drink at home anyway!” her pleading whine made him smile. How in the world could he say no to that, Daneel suddenly grabbed Jensen's face pulling him into a fiery kiss making Hilarie cheer loudly.

“Hey, whoa alright kids keep it PG” he chuckled getting to his feet to pull them apart as the kiss gained enthusiasm. Hilarie was laughing uncontrollably as he herded them toward the exit.

Hailing a cab he furrowed his brow, how the heck were they all going to fit in the same vehicle.

Sensing his confusion Jensen and Daneel piled inside the car, the younger man lifting Daneel onto his lap as they both laughed. Jeff shook his head with a soft smile as he gestured for Hilarie to get in next.

Taking a deep breath he pushed in next to her, his heart pounding in his chest as he shut the door.

****

“So exactly how many dogs do you want?”

Jeff laughed as she giggled dropping her head against his shoulder, they were sitting on his couch as Daneel and Jensen slept on the loveseat. He lifted his glass in his hand with a bright smile “all of them!!” his boisterous declaration sending them both into hysterics.

Rubbing her heated cheeks against his shoulder, Hilarie smiled as he bit his lip “s-so how long you...uh... gonna be in town?” Blinking at him for a moment she shrugged “I got this thing in Paris coming up”.

It was probably all the alcohol but Jeff was gonna ride this wave of confidence until it failed him. “Y-you should cancel” she cocked an eyebrow at him with a smirk “and why would I do that?”

He let out a nervous laugh “I uh got a thing in Mexico I gotta get to Monday”. Her face scrunched up in confusion “what times your flight?”

He chuckled “about eight hours from now” she snorted gripping his shirt as he laughed.

“You should come with me”.

Her face lifted from his shoulder, her face shocked before smoothing out with a soft smile “and what does Mexico have that's better than Paris?”

He blushed dipping his chin before he smiled “m-me”.

****

Jeff was honestly shocked Hilarie agreed to trade Mexico for Paris.

Who does that?

Especially for a guy she just met?

The thought alone made his heart clench and his lungs seize up.

Jesus, she made him forget how to breathe.

Hilarie had arrived on the set of The Resident every day since their plane landed, they got two rooms next to one another but ate breakfast together every morning.

They even drove to the set together most days.

Jeff looked forward to seeing her everyday especially at lunch during shooting.

She was like a ray of beautiful sunshine chasing away his worries and doubts.

She was perfect.

“Kinda a bold move asking a girl to watch you play a pervert”.

He chuckled as they ate sandwiches on set, he hoped she couldn't see the nervousness blooming in his stomach.

“Uh...speaking of which…” he mumbled running his hand down his mouth “a-are you enjoying yourself?”

She smiled brightly “oh absolutely, you're …” she trailed off rolling her lips before meeting his gaze “your really sweet Jeff”. His heart clenched “I uh...y-your amazing yourself Hil... seriously, I don't think I ever thanked you for coming with me”.

She smiled “you really are better than Paris ya know?” he blushed his voice coming out deeper than he intended “that so?”

His eyes darted to the floor as he tried to control the heat washing over his face.

The shout of the director made them both flinch as he called for everyone back on set, Jeff swallowed roughly the next scene was the goddamn tub scene.

What if he made her uncomfortable?

“You know you uh don't have to hang around here all day, I know it can get pretty boring”. She eyed him suspiciously “why so eager to get rid of me all of a sudden?” he gulped “I-I'm not...it's just…”

“Jeff come on!!”

He looked over his shoulder as one of the P.A’s waved him over, Hilarie smiled cupping his face “easy tiger, it's just a movie I'm not gonna judge you by a character you portray...what kind of girl would I be?”.

Turning him around she rubbed his back before shoving him forward playfully.

“Now go strut your stuff handsome!”

He swallowed audibly.

Fuck.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck... she was actually going to watch him!!

#jeffrey dean morgan fluff #jeffrey dean morgan x hilarie burton #jeffrey dean morgan fanfiction #jeffrey dean morgan smut #jeffrey dean morgan #real person fiction #real couple fic #jdm fic #jdm fluff #jdm fanfiction #jdm smut #jdm #jdm x hilarie #my fiction #the language of love #my fic #hilarie burton #hilarie burton fanfic

26 notes · View notes